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Post by JRooster76 on Aug 16, 2013 15:30:27 GMT -5
To me OP means original poster. Curious to know as well.
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redquill
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Post by redquill on Aug 17, 2013 13:44:26 GMT -5
OP is overpowered. Mostly people whine about it when they're losing, but stuff like DS is genuinely OP. Warrior's melee superiority is not OP; you don't have to melee Warriors and if you do you deserve to have them do their job to you.
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Post by disconaps on Aug 17, 2013 14:01:33 GMT -5
is DS some kind of glitch that can be corrected for this game? I suggested shield for the ranger thinking that it would inhibit DSing, since the ranged weapon would be switched for a shield that it can move around with. And if the werewolf could still block then it would provide a defense to DS without sacrificing melee attack power.
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redquill
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Post by redquill on Aug 17, 2013 14:03:28 GMT -5
DS type (weapon swapping/dual firing) glitches are something we'll be very much on guard for, don't worry. There will be issues, maybe worse ones, but we've dealt with enough DSers to be super on guard against making the same problem again.
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Post by JRooster76 on Aug 17, 2013 20:17:39 GMT -5
I hate HATE DSers  That is one glitch that I will make certain never occurs in our game. |
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Post by redquill on Aug 17, 2013 23:19:29 GMT -5
They piss me off too, but sometimes that's fun. I like shutting them down legit when I give a care, and with my worse DS but better Ranger when I don't. It wasn't DSers that had me choose to quit FP, it's how some of my friends responded to my methods of dealing with a bunch of DSers on our team. The game is good, but it was the community that kept me around. I mean damn; I normally hate forums but I was a pretty recognisable guy on the Lair, and here I am as one of two admins of a forum. That says a LOT for how good (mostly) this game is and how awesome (usually) the community is.  Keep that under your hat. |
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Post by redquill on Sept 16, 2013 18:23:26 GMT -5
Now that theme is settled it's time to settle this too. I've decided that my invented monsters will remain as NPCs, bosses and such for players to fight in the story mode. My main reasoning for this is that playable classes should be iconic and easily recognized. Not so iconic that they have a pronoun for a name like Jason or Igor, but easy to recognize as what they are.
We've got most of these figured out already, but there are still a few minor issues. A lot of this will be repeat, so I'll highlight what's new.
Warrior: Werewolf. With the spinning and charging, it's easy to imagine a werewolf taking this role. Blocking and deflecting less so, but given their regeneration ability covering up with their arms almost makes sense.
Ranger: Alien. disco mentioned that Horror doesn't necessarily mean dark ages, so I like this. Besides, accurate ranged attacks CLEARLY could not have been invented by primitive humans or savage monsters. What sort of alien they might be is a different question. All I know for now is they'll use lasers and the Torch special will be some kind of power cell.
Priest: Shaman. Voodoo is probably the most applicable sort of these considering the theme... lots of bones to go around, right? As JR said, graphically healing will be damage and vice versa, these are monsters after all.
Mage: Witch/Wizard. Basically the same as what you'd find in FP. Males and females wear robes, so unisex clothing isn't an issue. Given their power, I think the Pumpkin Witch and Good Wizard will be some ascended variety of this. That should clear up my earlier argument about this class being viewed as under/overpowered. Given her attachment to pumpkins, I'm thinking some sort of nature spirit for the Pumpkin Witch. For the Good Wizard, his inventiveness and understanding of the manner of things has me thinking of prophets and sages. Sage is probably a safer title.
Worker: Still not certain... goblins are still alright but not great. I was thinking some sort of golem or robot, but they might be too slow. The main points to consider is that they're fast, can build/repair, and have a decent but hard to aim melee attack and a ranged AoE attack. Something I haven't considered is that if almost all building is from their Blueprint special, they need to have some options right from the start. They should have a Special that levels up as well, giving them more options after each upgrade.
Ninja: Ghost. Fairly straightforward.
Giant: Troll. The guy who lives under bridges and beds, in closets and attics. I like JR's idea of a transformation, but the class is so well balanced as it is that I don't want to change it so drastically.
Pirate: Zombie. Or something of that nature. Keeping away from elements as they'll mainly be the Wizard/Witch's domain. The ranged attack would be spit of some kind, which suits the Pirate's wide but inaccurate pattern. An explosion of corpse gas would be the YAAAR, following JR's suggestion that it's centred on themselves and does some self-harm.
Gnome: Imp. Tricksy and annoying little demons. Should fit.
Blacksmith: Mad Scientist. Similar to Igor but more versatile visually while avoiding pronouns.
King: There's a lot of ways one could go with this. The classes abilities aren't that restrictive, but it needs to be a monster that's a cut above the others. The boogyman, Death, pumpkin head (may be most suited to the storyline but I'm kinda reserving it for the Reaper) or something like that. Devil or demon would work too. A thought on Reapers and Superchickens: make them stronger but no longer tied to their faction. Why not have the minute between rounds be a free for all?
Villager: Skeleton. This makes sense to me now and is a sound choice. FP was able to make skin customizable so that should apply to the bones in this case. For Faction colours, they just need more clothes. Their bony nature can be supported by clattering movement sounds and their head. If we use FP's in game model, it's about 1/3 head, counting the hair and such.
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Post by disconaps on Oct 3, 2013 11:50:38 GMT -5
I had a thought while I was on my way to work this morning. What if we changed the model for the worker's construction ability? If we made the Witch the new Worker, the Witch could "build" things using spells. Imagine a witch casting a spell to upgrade the masks, or to create portals for teleportation, or even to make the environment unsafe for the advancing team. Essentially, players would need to choose the Witch class to elevate their own team. She could even brew different kinds of potions similar to the chicken potion. We could also up the number of potions that could be made, though I think three should be the max and a frog potion would made a great substitute for chickens, and the others could enhance speed or heal or what-have you. Witches don't normally use fire and ice based attacks anyway, their powers are more effect-based. They could adopt the FP Dark Priest's muddling ability. Their special could be a way of reverting a character back to the base class. The witches attack would be relatively weak, and the spells wouldn't necessarily cause damage so that it doesn't OP the other classes.
Thoughts?
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Post by disconaps on Oct 3, 2013 12:05:54 GMT -5
Oh, also- I know that you guys are really keen on the Skeleton replacing the Villager, but I still think players should have the same number of options to personalize it- FP gave us 6 different personal aspects to change up. Unless you guys are cool with giving the Skeleton hair and eyes, I don't know how else we could customize it beyond tag and bone color. Haha- Bone Tone!  + $ 0.02 |
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Post by JRooster76 on Oct 3, 2013 14:28:38 GMT -5
I had a thought while I was on my way to work this morning. What if we changed the model for the worker's construction ability? If we made the Witch the new Worker, the Witch could "build" things using spells. Imagine a witch casting a spell to upgrade the masks, or to create portals for teleportation, or even to make the environment unsafe for the advancing team. Essentially, players would need to choose the Witch class to elevate their own team. She could even brew different kinds of potions similar to the chicken potion. We could also up the number of potions that could be made, though I think three should be the max and a frog potion would made a great substitute for chickens, and the others could enhance speed or heal or what-have you. Witches don't normally use fire and ice based attacks anyway, their powers are more effect-based. They could adopt the FP Dark Priest's muddling ability. Their special could be a way of reverting a character back to the base class. The witches attack would be relatively weak, and the spells wouldn't necessarily cause damage so that it doesn't OP the other classes. Thoughts? I like the idea of casting spells to create structures, however I don't know if we should call the character a witch. I'm with Red in thinking that there ought to be a distinction between "The Witch" (Pumpkinhead's mother) and a witch. Not sure what to call it though... Casting spells instead of building reminds of the way structures are built by Protoss in Starcraft. They teleport in a structure. The teleportation takes times and can be stopped by the enemy. However, the unit that began the teleportation does not have to stand by the structure while it's being teleported. They can summon the structure and walk away knowing that in time it will be built. The difference is subtle but significant in terms of strategy, and it's something we'd have to think about if that is the way we want to go. As far as customization, yes the player would be able to select various styles of hair (hats maybe?), eye color, and... bone tone lol I'm think that instead of red and blue, we could do it the same way as Happy Wars and use black and white as the team colors (at least for 2-team games). This way we don't run into the issue of mistaken identity when a player chooses a reddish/blueish skin... err, bone tone. |
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Post by redquill on Oct 19, 2013 21:01:15 GMT -5
I like the idea of the swamp monster a lot. Poison could certainly be made to work like the current Burning effect, and since Ninja are Ghosts now their old poison effect could be Haunted. Chilled can easily be changed to Slimed, and Frozen to coated or something along those lines.
An issue I'm having with these changes is that Poison doesn't come off in water like Burning. Another is that Mad Scientists are focused around raising and lowering Armour as well as item fusion. I'd thought acid would be a weapon for lowering Armour but now it's too similar visually to the swamp monster's. I'm sure there's something in science's bag of tricks that would account for this. Maybe electricity. Magnets? Also, it's Mad Scientists that fuse items, not Workers. Workers have the Blueprints and the means to make them solid, and Mad Scientists can improve the project once it's reality.
Taking the magically appearing a little further, what if the Worker was a summoner? They lay down a rune instead of a Blueprint. All runes look the same from a distance, and show an outline of what they'll be when near them. If their team has the Resources, a summoner can then summon the construct. Just like now, the resources are spent when summoning starts and a summoner needs to stay near the rune to complete it. When nobody is working on a rune, it's build progress will degrade back to zero. Some issues I'm not sure about with this system are when a team owns a rune and how to avoid things being built on top of each other or making webs of ghost objects. Runes or any other placeable system will need to own an area around them to prevent this. Any terrain that can be broken or moves needs a similar property.
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Post by redquill on Oct 22, 2013 14:13:26 GMT -5
Some further thoughts on runes: there needs to be a system to prevent the entire map being covered in them, placing a rune owns an area so they can be placed defensively against other runes, summoner bots need to know good locations to place runes, and there needs to be a visual clue to show if a rune has taken Resources or not.
Two things can be done for the first point. When a rune is placed, it's linked to their summoner and the number active at once is limited. Three is a good working number. If a fourth rune is placed, that summoner's oldest rune is lost. Further, when a summoner dies, all their runes are lost. Harsh! This is where team ownership comes in. Once a rune has taken Resources the team owns it, and the summoner dying will not lead to resource loss. I'm not sure which way to go here yet.. the two options I see are losing the rune but having the resources refunded, or having a limit on how many in progress runes a team can have. When that limit is hit, Resources decide too many of them are waiting to be reshaped and hold a strike in the ether. In muggle terms, that means a rune needs to be completed - turned into a construct - before any more Resources can be put on a rune.
Defensive placement is risky since the summoner dying breaks their runes. It will prevent summoned items - anything that was a rune at some point - from moving through the rune's space while its summoner is alive. This gets trickier once team ownership comes into play, which is why I prefer the break and refund method. It's simpler. As a failsafe against Resource hiding griefers, team owned runes that sit with no progress too long would return their Resources and break.
For bots knowing where to put things, the current model in FP is the best I can imagine. Each map will have areas bots know a particular rune will be effective, and they will only place that rune in that spot.
Colour makes telling runes apart easy. One colour for placed, another colour for team owned. Those colours may change from map to map since each map will be a home for one of the classes, but it will always be obvious what state a rune is in. If I can limit it to two colours I will. Maybe a glow would work better. One colour per map, glowing when Resources have been applied.
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Post by redquill on Oct 22, 2013 16:48:54 GMT -5
I missed that you mentioned a Worker special that returns enemies to their base class, disco. Skeletons can do that after they're Reinforced. This gives them access to a Pouch, allowing them to steal as a Special while they wear it. Normally this is for items in the target's hand, but if they aren't holding anything it targets their Mask. Mask stealing can fail, but if it works the target becomes a Skeleton and the thief is holding their Mask. The thief can put it on, throw it away, run with it, climb a tree and mimic the sounds the mask they stole might make... whatever.
tl;dr: Guard your face around Skeletons.
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Post by redquill on Oct 22, 2013 18:57:13 GMT -5
For Warriors, I'm fine with dash grabbing. I can see why you'd want a damage soaking class to move faster than it should. I don't want to make you break your fingers for it, and I don't want people to exploit a coding mistake by dashing and dropping over and over. So I figured... what if that speed boost was only while a Werewolf was charging their secondary attack? They drop to all fours and get faster. After a bit of a run up, they can lunge, wrecking everything between where they leap and where they land. If they grab something along the way, no problem.
That run up is the key point. While the lunge is charging they increase speed. Once it's charged they're going as fast as they can on all fours. The can maintain that speed until they lunge. Want to lunge again? Run in circles a while, Werewolf! Chase that tail!
Perhaps barging enemies aside while they're on all fours should be added. It wouldn't do damage, just allow the Werewolf to power through to a prime target.
Since the Werewolf's weapons are all natural, tooth and claw, I'm looking at their two weapons as fighting stances: two legged and four legged. Two legged is the sword, able to spin and focused on damage. Four legged is the halberd, focussed on moving the Werewolf around through enemies.
I'm reviewing their Special after disco's proposal that Aliens have a shield. If, big IF, the Alien's shield is implemented, it will only work for ranged attacks. Shots will be absorbed, objects will bounce back. It will be their special and will drain while it's up, further when it's hit. Werewolves will be able to block as much as they like, whatever they like, so long at it comes at them from the front and affects Armour.
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Keep that under your hat.
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